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Interview with Sandra Brown, On Sociopaths, Psychopaths and other Cluster B Personality Disorders-- How They Hurt Victims


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Broadcast 6/15/2013 at 02:53:16 (0 Listens, 3 Downloads, 0 Itunes)
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Sandra L. Brown, M.A., CEO of The Institute for Relational Harm 

Reduction & Public Pathology Education is a clinician, program 

development specialist, psychopathologist, lecturer, and an award-winning 

author. Her books include Counseling Victims of Violence (1991, 2006), 

How to Spot a Dangerous Man Book and Workbook (2005) and The 

Moody Pews (2005).

Rough Notes (mostly questions)

neuroscience book Pathological Altruism authored by some of the world"s 

most renowned scientists.

She is recognized for her pioneering work on women"s issues related 

to relational harm with Cluster B/Axis II disordered partners and 

specializes in the development and implementation of Pathological Love 

Relationship clinical training and services

Survivors of what?

You have a blog on Psychology Today

You have an article on Psychology Today, 60 Million People in the U.S. Negatively Affected By Someone Else's Pathology


Are you referring to all diagnoses, including depression, schizophrenia, ADD, etc.?

You listed 

cluster B Personality disorders"  borderline, narcissistic, anti-social and "we throw in Sociopath and Psychopath"

Difference between Narcissists, Borderlines and sociopaths and psychopaths?

"Erratic and dramatic cluster of disorders."

And less and less treatable, as you move along the continuum.

Relationships of inevitable harm.

You're talking about people in relationships, not people engaging in corruption or in business or government.  You were talking about intimate relationships and others in personal relationships. 

It could be hundreds of millions of people hurt by these people. That's why I'm exciting about getting into this work. 

Are you a therapist, a psychologist, a practitioner? Are you licensed?

What are the key things that you want to have professionals to have learned, when they're finished training on  how to work with victims?

White Collar Psychopaths

What is Gas lighting?

Can you put in plain English the usual MO of a psychopath or sociopath?

Power over. 



pathological lying

callousness.-- lack of empathy, inability to stand in someone else's shoes

lack of conscience, remorse, empathy. 

So, you're saying that the psychopaths are mostly CEOs, doctors and lawyers?

What are the misunderstandings and what is missing in their understanding?

Martha Stout, Sociopath Next Door. 1 in 25 people have no conscience.

1-they are rare and not likely to encounter them. 

2-people have a Charlie Manson visual concept of psychopathy-- wild eyed".  

are there common things that people don't know?

-psychopathy does fall within the successful, not just blue collar or criminal guys. 

Books like Snakes in Suits and The Corporate Psychopath are shedding light. 

When you talk about psychopaths are you talking about the whole spectrum?

Are there early warning signs to detect people with low conscience spectrum personality disorders?

First is usually catching them in a lie. 

Usually very charming-- if they sound too good to be true, they often are.

He's not who says he is. 

It's a disorder of deception. It seems that lack of transparency, secrecy and anonymity seem to be perfect grounds for their behavior. 

How about the web. How much of what you deal with has a connection to the web?

How many of your clients, your victims-- how many of them met their sociopaths or psychopaths on the web?

Does the average therapist know about this population or their victims?

So you're saying that psychiatric and psychotherapy programs gloss over the diagnosis and treatment of these disorders?

"These are the most dangerous people on the planet"

Is there any policy from the NIH or NIMH?

Actually, NIH has announced that it will no longer base research on DSM5. 

Basically, currently the DSM doesn't refer to psychopath or sociopath at all. 

My theory is that the DSM is for coming up with diagnoses for TREATMENT and there IS NO treatment for them. 

What is that book by Robert Hare-- Treatment Guidelines for Psychopathic Inpatient-- with Steven Wong.

Let's talk about the victims. What are the most common symptoms, common harms caused to the victims?

"Logo is a mask."

about half will have post traumatic stress, even without violence.

So, what you are saying is that people have flashbacks of positive memories because these predators start off being charismatic and seductive"

So, these victims are smart, successful women?

Are there personality traits that make the victims more vulnerable?

What are these traits that these victims have in common?

High temperament traits-- elevated empathy, tolerance, compassion, resourcefulness, competitiveness. They act like gorilla glue in the relationship. 

Empathy at the extremes-- psychopaths at one end-- but have not studied other ends. High levels of deep, intense attachment. 

Talk about intense attachment. What's that about?

Would you say that narcissists and borderlines are predators as well?

Is there research or government funding to research this from NIMH or the government?

Robert Hare 

Kent Kiel MRIs of psychopaths brains.

You're saying there's been a huge increase in interest in psychopaths and sociopaths in the past few years. How has that manifested itself?

Part of the problem is we have a culture that almost nurtures sociopathy. Can you comment on that?

"What do you think is causing that? Why is our society is losing its empathy, its conscience, becoming more callous."

How about consumerism, families not spending time together, 

So you're saying that corporate psychopaths beget employees who manifest psychopathic behaviors. 

What do you mean by psychopathic or narcissistic belief systems?

And you've seen victims of all those categories you've just described-- government, corporations, religion, teachers...

it seems like there ought to be a national program aimed at identifying who these people are, what they do, the harm they cause and how to prevent the damage.

Political Ponerology"

Do you feel that the internet has accelerated the activity of these kinds of predators?

"The internet is their playground"

How about social media-- Facebook and twitter?

experiences especially on recovery forums. 

So basically, people who have identified themselves as needing help as victims, are targets"

Psychopaths are human psychologists?

Are there any warning signs if this person is contacting you online that he is a psychopath or sociopath?

Any last words or advice to people?

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Rob Kall is the host of the Rob Kall Bottom Up Radio Show, WNJC 1360, where he discusses how the bottom up mind and bottom up revolution are reaching different areas of the world, of life, of politics, business, society and anywhere else.

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